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Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby pegs » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:03 pm

mb4th wrote:PHX found Grant Hill? He wasnt hiding very well

Meh, they just snatched him up on the cheap when nobody else was looking.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Kid Chocolate » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:08 pm

pegs wrote:Meh, they just snatched him up on the cheap when nobody else was looking.


Eh. I don't know about that.

"Obviously money wasn't the biggest factor here," Babby (Hill's agent) said. "He had offers for a lot more money. Grant wants a chance to win a championship and he wanted to go to a place that would give him a chance to contribute. Phoenix was the perfect fit."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2926650

Not to mention a lot was lucky that he stayed healthy. In 6 years with Orlando Hill played in only 40% of regular season games (200 out of 492 games).
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby pegs » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:10 pm

Kid Chocolate wrote:Eh. I don't know about that.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2926650

Not to mention a lot was lucky that he stayed healthy. In 6 years with Orlando Hill played in only 40% of regular season games (200 out of 492 games).

Oh......thanks for the correction.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby mb4th » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:17 pm

Someone probably slipped in a post just before you. You hit reply then left w/o knowing it took you to the useless "Do you want to post reply in light of this?" screen.

:shrugs:
"First I got to get big like Dwight Howard, Im gonna do that"



"We also have Anthony Morrow he’s one of the best for three-point throws. It’s very important for our team. "
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby GrandKenyon6 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:44 pm

pegs wrote:I don't think Throntron has done this once. I can't recall it. Maybe just below average players from the DLeague.


He hasn't! Not once!
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby ly_yng » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:11 am

GrandKenyon6 wrote:Huh? He doesn't have to be asked not to create the worst team in history. That's absurd. Being the worst team in history is not a necessary aspect of cost-cutting nor is it a necessary aspect of rebuilding. Part of his job is still to focus on basketball.

I can see how being financially constrained can prevent a team from competing, but that is a poor excuse for being the worst team ever.


In the end, we're talking about a couple of guys who were told: "I'm hemorrhaging money, make the franchise as easy to sell as possible." That is what their boss told them to do. They did a very good job at that.

I'd agree that there were some pretty critical mistakes when the team actually had an outside shot to win an NBA championship that ended up really hamstringing the team. I think it's fair to hold that against Thorn's record, as far as building a championship team goes. I don't think it's fair to use this season - his management gave him a set of priorities completely separate from winning, and he (and Kiki) put those priorities first. They are ideally posed for a new owner.

If you've got some knowledge of a better Vince Carter trade or a better Richard Jefferson trade or a better Jason Kidd trade that they should have taken, please share. Otherwise, you've got to admit for the job they were asked to do (clear payroll, acquire young talent) they've done about as well as could be expected in a buyer's market.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Lurk182 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:15 am

GrandKenyon6 wrote:
He hasn't! Not once!


I think the post from NI on Thorn's report card is instructive, at least in that it lists everything Thorn did for the last decade.

Here's the link again: http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?p=1548

From 2000-2002, Thorn (or whoever was working for him - John Nash?) was on a phenomenal hot streak.

Aaron Williams was an out-of-nowhere type of find.
Stephen Jackson was too.
Jason Collins was the #18 pick in the draft.
Anthony Jackson was a revelation from the D-league.
Nenad Krstic was a huge find at #24 in the draft.

Between these moves, making the bold move for Kidd, winning the KMart lottery, and having some pieces around that turned out to mesh (Kittles, Luscious, VanHorn), and nailing the RJeff pick, we were able to reach heights not usually associated with the franchise.

Then as soon as we got there, we started blowing it, first with the Mutombo trade and then by going after Mourning. We acted desperately because we were getting beat up by Shaq and Duncan.

Then Kmart got hurt, and Kittles's back crumbled. The run was over.

From 2004 - 2007, Thorn went on a run of management futility that was as dramatic as his hot run earlier in the decade. Rod Buford, Ron Mercer, Eric Williams, Travis Best, Elden Campbell, Antoine Wright, Mile Ilic, MicInnis, Marc Jackson, Linton Johnson, Lamond Murray, Scott Padgett, Marcus Williams, Sean Williams. All were mistakes, some took a chunk of money, and many of them were hyped beyond recognition. Along the way there were few successes. Getting VC for the pu-pu platter was a notable stroke. Boki and Mikki were mild successes as well.

Since that time we've been unwinding the stars and remaining pu-pu and picking up some nice pieces in the draft. Honestly, we suck, but we're in a position not nearly as depressing as I recall from the late 80s.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:18 am

So Lurk, isn't that similar to Dumars? He made some good moves early in his tenure as GM then started screwing up with the Darko selection and then made poor decisions last summer.

Shouldn't the Nets learn from that situation and get the bad management out before they waste the opportunity presented by the 2010 cap space?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Lurk182 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:20 am

cpawfan said:

I'm a bullet points kind of guy (no Arenas jokes please) and would rather present things and then discuss them back and forth.


Cpaw, is this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIbCm7gpDTg

:lol:

PS - Moderators, bring back the haiku thread!
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Lurk182 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:24 am

cpawfan wrote:Shouldn't the Nets learn from that situation and get the bad management out before they waste the opportunity presented by the 2010 cap space?


Get Thorn and Kiki out, but stop referring to a meteorically mixed record as simply "bad management." How about something like: "We must try to do better." And yes, I would do the same with Dumars. See my earlier post on this topic in this thread.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Ast » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:29 am

cpawfan wrote:Spurs and Rockets shouldn't need an explination

current Nuggets staff - Kleiza was late first, they traded 2 second rounders to save JR Smith from the scrap heap, Dahtnay Jones last season, Anthony Carter, Birdman, the pick they traded for Ty Lawson was originally a late first that became a Bobcats protected first rounder

Golden State - while their lottery selections and big free agents haven't been great, they did draft Monta in the second round and found Morrow and Azubuike
I hope we can all agree that getting a good player in the 2nd round is about 80% luck. Morrow has been meh since his explosion last year. Monta and Azuibuike were good finds, but factoring in that they messed up most of their other picks, I'd say they got lucky rather than "consistently show an ability to find talent out of position".

Nuggets didn't too bad - I'll agree with you.

Plus, they pretty much stole Afflalo for bits and pieces. Joey Graham wasn't that bad of a signing, either.

Might as well throw in Toronto - their base hasn't been good enough to build around, but finding guys like Anthony Parker, Jose Calderon, Jamario Moon is notable.

Nope, can't see it. Parker is a career 7ppg starter. Moon is pure athleticism and nothing else, but Calderon was a great find.
Then think about all the other trash they've signed and drafted, and you can't call Colangelo a good GM on any basis.

Phoenix, too, with their finds of Admunson, Dragic, Hunter (he's been crap anywhere else, he was serviceable with them), Hill.

I can give you Dragic. The other two have been nothing special. Hill joined them because it's Phoenix. It had nothing to do with GM being good. I think we can agree that Kerr is a pretty bad GM.

Portland has been VERY good at finding those types, too - Steve Blake, Jarret Jack, Rudy Fernandez, Nicholas Batum, Howard.
Yep, this is the 3rd one I was thinking about.

I don't think Throntron has done this once. I can't recall it. Maybe just below average players from the DLeague.

RJ/Collins
Aaron Williams
AJ
Vaughn was serviceable.
Krstic
Uncle Cliffy
Boki
House
Anderson
CDR
Dooling

cpawfan wrote:So Lurk, isn't that similar to Dumars? He made some good moves early in his tenure as GM then started screwing up with the Darko selection and then made poor decisions last summer.

Shouldn't the Nets learn from that situation and get the bad management out before they waste the opportunity presented by the 2010 cap space?

I disagree with your definition of bad management. We had good drafts the last 2 years, have no bad contracts and the most cap space for the biggest FA market in recent history.
That is called good management.

I think ly_ing covered this part.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:31 am

Lurk182 wrote:Cpaw, is this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIbCm7gpDTg

:lol:

PS - Moderators, bring back the haiku thread!


Haiku Thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6 (it is in the Water Cooler forum)

And no, that isn't me. I'm a free hand it on the whiteboard kind of guy, not a premade charts and graphs kind of guy :D
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:36 am

Ast wrote:I disagree with your definition of bad management. We had good drafts the last 2 years, have no bad contracts and the most cap space for the biggest FA market in recent history.
That is called good management.

I think ly_ing covered this part.


Bottom line, do you trust this Front Office to make the proper decisions with that cap space to fix this franchise?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:43 am

ly_yng wrote:In the end, we're talking about a couple of guys who were told: "I'm hemorrhaging money, make the franchise as easy to sell as possible." That is what their boss told them to do. They did a very good job at that.

I'd agree that there were some pretty critical mistakes when the team actually had an outside shot to win an NBA championship that ended up really hamstringing the team. I think it's fair to hold that against Thorn's record, as far as building a championship team goes. I don't think it's fair to use this season - his management gave him a set of priorities completely separate from winning, and he (and Kiki) put those priorities first. They are ideally posed for a new owner.

If you've got some knowledge of a better Vince Carter trade or a better Richard Jefferson trade or a better Jason Kidd trade that they should have taken, please share. Otherwise, you've got to admit for the job they were asked to do (clear payroll, acquire young talent) they've done about as well as could be expected in a buyer's market.


I posted when the news came out about the Nets hiring Kiki that he was good at one thing, tearing down a team and clearing cap space. So Kiki can now stand by a flag of the Nets logo and say mission accomplished. If the Nets aren't going to make any major trades by the deadline, then Thorn too is no longer needed for his best skill. I suppose I could live with keeping him on retainer as a special consultant and bringing him in to negotiate draft day trades.

The goal now is to add talent and remake the roster into a championship level team. I have zero faith in either of these men to do that and don't want to see the Nets waste this opportunity.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Lurk182 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:50 am

cpawfan wrote:
I posted when the news came out about the Nets hiring Kiki that he was good at one thing, tearing down a team and clearing cap space. So Kiki can now stand by a flag of the Nets logo and say mission accomplished. If the Nets aren't going to make any major trades by the deadline, then Thorn too is no longer needed for his best skill. I suppose I could live with keeping him on retainer as a special consultant and bringing him in to negotiate draft day trades.

The goal now is to add talent and remake the roster into a championship level team. I have zero faith in either of these men to do that and don't want to see the Nets waste this opportunity.


Well if you're going to think of it that way, aren't we in a situation similar to when Thorn took over and went on his initial tear?

Shoot-first, marginally all-starrish, overhyped, defense-shunning point guard? Check.
High draft choice coming up? Check.
A few useful pieces hanging around, including one potential 20 point scorer in the frontcourt and an athletic wing? Check.
Coach with greasy, bad hair? Check.

Hmmmmm. . . .

Nah, that stinky stretch in the middle of the decade is too much to bear.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Ast » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:03 am

cpawfan wrote:I posted when the news came out about the Nets hiring Kiki that he was good at one thing, tearing down a team and clearing cap space. So Kiki can now stand by a flag of the Nets logo and say mission accomplished.

Absolutely agree with you. We need to pat Kiki on the back and say "good job". Then give him a hard kick in the GO NETS!!! and out the door.

If the Nets aren't going to make any major trades by the deadline, then Thorn too is no longer needed for his best skill. I suppose I could live with keeping him on retainer as a special consultant and bringing him in to negotiate draft day trades.
Thorn is good at getting talent out of thin air. He also has not gotten ripped off in a trade.
I want him around the franchise in some capacity, but we also should get some new blood to complete the makeover of the team.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Netted » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:11 am

GrandKenyon6 wrote:He hasn't! Not once!

Actually he did do it once... Stephen Jackson. But then lost him after just one season.

I was going to give him credit for Earl Boykins, but that was the season before he got here.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Netted » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:15 am

Ast wrote:Nope, can't see it. Parker is a career 7ppg starter. Moon is pure athleticism and nothing else, but Calderon was a great find.

Well at least those guys are still in the league. Most of Thorn's players wind up in the Swedish or Chinese league after the Nets.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Eddymac » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:20 pm

He started the rebuilding process I trust him enough to know he will do a good job rebuilding this team. He made mistakes but what GM's haven't? Even some of the best ever has made mistakes (Jerry West) It doesn't mean it has to define their ability as a GM. Rod has done more good than bad for this team. By 2012 this team will be in a better position, we have a nice core of players already here, all we need is a franchise player.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Dumpy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:37 pm

In Thorn's defense, he is one of the better GMs in the league that are former NBA players. :shock:
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. --Albert Einstein
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