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Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby GrandKenyon6 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:08 pm

Netted wrote:Actually he did do it once... Stephen Jackson. But then lost him after just one season.

I was going to give him credit for Earl Boykins, but that was the season before he got here.


I don't think that counts considering he wasn't deemed worthy enough to be brought back for a second season. Jackson played well enough to earn a starting nod and then was inexplicably benched. I remember reading an article about Marbury taking him under his wing. It's kind of crazy that Jackson is now one of the league's better players and Marbury is in China.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Netted » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:42 pm

GrandKenyon6 wrote:I don't think that counts considering he wasn't deemed worthy enough to be brought back for a second season. Jackson played well enough to earn a starting nod and then was inexplicably benched. I remember reading an article about Marbury taking him under his wing. It's kind of crazy that Jackson is now one of the league's better players and Marbury is in China.

I think that was all Byron. He always needs to make a player the scapegoat and it was Jackson that year. He did the same thing to JR Smith in New Orleans.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby gigantes » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:32 pm

cpawfan wrote:[Kmart's] jumper is better than it has ever been as there is actually some arc on it now (see the Spurs game from this past weekend). His footwork in the post makes him look at times like an actual NBA big man (he had a couple of moves last night against the Suns that nearly rendered Mark Jackson speechless). He is the one that talks (more like barks out instructions) on Denver's defense. Karl has talked repeatedly to the media about his role as QB of the defense and how when the team plays their spurts of good defense it is because of what Kenyon does. In short, he is finally healthy, has matured and is a far more complete player than when he was an All Star with the Nets.

watched the first half of the nuggets-lakers game last night.

kmart's jumper is definitely much better... it even seems to extend to the 3-pt line now (holy crap). and i agree, his arc is better. maybe not dramatically, but something is there.

still made some mistakes from what i saw... for example, more than once settling into a zone defense position when the defender right next to him seemed to be in man, leading to easy layup passes when the lakers overloaded his area. but who knows... it's always possible someone else missed their assignment and he was the one hung out to dry.

and on offense, he seems to think that he's a guard at times who can toss up running floaters for regular points. but even floaters need some arc... or at least, he can't drive hard and strong-arm a line-drive shot and expect it to go in.

overall, however, it really looks like kmart belongs. he seems to know exactly where he needs to go on the court at any given moment, the mark of a smart, veteran player. very rarely does he seem to hurt the nuggets, although billups may heavily influence that on offense. by contrast, RJ is in a living heck right now... wherever he goes and whatever he does, very quickly it seems like the wrong decision, and he's probably the first to admit it.

EDIT: cleaned it up a little bit.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:23 pm

The trading deadline is a week away from today. After that, Thorn's usefulness is significantly reduced. Prior to that, Thorn will be meeting with Prokhorov in Dallas.

Al Iannazzone is opining that Thorn will likely get to keep his job. I fail to understand how someone that has amassed such a fortune would keep someone that is so incompetent at his job in place after this season. Al states that "Prokhorov has done his homework on Thorn: He knows he's well-respected throughout the league, a good negotiator and a salesman when needed. These characteristics should help Thorn's future with the organization."

Everything Al is describing as Thorn's positive attributes makes him a perfect candidate to serve in an advisory capacity, not in a day to day control of personnel and talent acquisition. Thorn may be "well-respected" but no other team is going to give him a job. Every single basketball operational aspect of this franchise needs to be improved. Scouting, Data Analysis, Coaching and of course the roster. In short, this franchise needs a person with both vision and basketball acumen in charge.

Rod Thorn has proven that he is an opportunist, not a man of vision. He gets credit for being the man that drafted Michael Jordan, but that wasn't vision, that was opportunity. When the Nets needed to improve after their surprising run to the NBA Finals, what did he do to improve the Nets? When they lost again to the Spurs, what did he do to address the team's weaknesses? What was his grand vision in the summer of 2005? One failure after another that all demonstrate a lack of vision.

On the bright side, it appears that Kiki has very little chance of being retained in any capacity with the team past this season. Personally, I hope Prokhorov gives Thorn permission to just can Kiki ASAP so that the pissing match that is ruining this season is finally over.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Eddymac » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:28 pm

Picking up Alonzo Mourning and keeping Jason Kidd was his attempt to improve the team. Before you call Mourning a failure you need to remember that 2 years earlier Mourning returned from his kidney alignment and made the all star team in 2002, so Thorn assumed Mourning would have a similar type season, I mean who knew he would regress, and before he regressed he played well. He came back for the 2004/2005 season and despite whining he played well before being traded in the VC deal.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Netted » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:30 pm

cpawfan wrote:Personally, I hope Prokhorov gives Thorn permission to just can Kiki ASAP so that the pissing match that is ruining this season is finally over.

Here here!

On a side note it's Former Nets Night on TNT tonight. Carter playing against Cavs and Kidd is playing against RJ. Too bad Orlando isn't playing Nuggets, but this is still good.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:39 pm

Eddymac wrote:Picking up Alonzo Mourning and keeping Jason Kidd was his attempt to improve the team. Before you call Mourning a failure you need to remember that 2 years earlier Mourning returned from his kidney alignment and made the all star team in 2002, so Thorn assumed Mourning would have a similar type season, I mean who knew he would regress, and before he regressed he played well. He came back for the 2004/2005 season and despite whining he played well before being traded in the VC deal.


You have to look at the entire picture with Zo. Kidd was playing arm chair GM that summer. He wanted Scott gone, but Rod wouldn't do it so he pushed for signing Zo. Zo wouldn't accept anything less than a fully guaranteed max length MLE contract. Something even Mark Cuban wouldn't agree to. The Nets had to mortgage a significant portion of future cap space to the strong likelihood of Zo not playing the entire length of his contract.

Plus Thorn bought out Deke of his contract which compounded the problems of losing Zo for the season and only saved the team a few million dollars per season.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:43 pm

gigantes wrote:still made some mistakes from what i saw... for example, more than once settling into a zone defense position when the defender right next to him seemed to be in man, leading to easy layup passes when the lakers overloaded his area. but who knows... it's always possible someone else missed their assignment and he was the one hung out to dry.


Kenyon is in charge of the Nuggets defense when he is on the floor and the one that calls out how his teammates are suppose to adjust. Yes, he does take a lot of chances and will get burned on occasion. However, more often that not, the type of mistake you are talking about is created by a teammate not adjusting like they are suppose to.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Eddymac » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:43 pm

But if he stayed healthy and the Nets won the title that year none that would have mattered. But I really think with a Mourning the Nets could have won a championship that season.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby GMJ » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:45 pm

Rod Thorn won’t meet with Mikhail Prokhorov in Dallas this weekend. Instead, he’ll meet with the Russian’s top aides Sunday. Then, if all goes well, it’s on to Vancouver where Prokhorov is attending the Olympics. The two would “discuss his future and the future of the Nets”, reports Al Iannazzone. “If Thorn knows he’s on solid ground, sources believe he could fire Vandeweghe sometime after the trade deadline.”


http://www.netsdaily.com/?p=9969

So it looks like if Thorn stays in some capacity, Kiki could be gone. Of course on the other hand Thorn could be told he doesn't have a future with the organization. I suppose after this weekend one of them will be on the way out.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby NetIncome » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:44 am

It's very confusing and we are reporting all the rumors, but know a few things:

Re reporters...

Fred Kerber is a very good reporter and he is saying definitively that Prokhorov likes Thorn and it appears his job is safe. He actually spoke to Thorn, unlike Iannazzone, who thinks Kiki is going to be fired. A lot of people in E. Rutherford hopes that's true, but Thorn was quite definitive with Kerber. Adrian Wojnarowski covered the Nets years ago for the Record and knows the players. He's in Dallas unlike the beat reporters.

Dave D'Alessandro has taken a couple of weeks off from covering the Nets to go to Vancouver to cover the Jersey angle in the Olympics. It appears will still be covering the Nets in Vancouver. He should devote a lot of his time to covering the Biathlon, particularly the Russian biathletes...and get an invite to at least one Prokhorov party. (I want pictures.)

Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated knows Prokhorov's people. He too is in Dallas. Marc Stein is so tied up with trades I doubt he has much time for Prokhorov speculation.

Alan Hahn covers the Knicks and although he has a source saying Colangelo is interested, he has one source. Colangelo told both SI and Hoopshype that no one has contacted him. Colangelo is 70 and already has the Team USA job.

re Prokhorov:

His reputation in Russia is that he stays low until he has something to say, then says it...quite clearly. He has given one short interview, with SovSport, the Russian website, and that was by chance. The SovSport reporter covering the Biathlon World Cup in Slovenia cornered him there. He knows what's going on. Without preparation, he noted that the Nets will have the lowest payroll in the NBA next year and that there are 14 top free agents whose contracts are expiring in 2010 and 2011. Anyone here think Ratner knows those numbers off the top of his head? He's not going to need a lot of prep work.

On Monday, the Russian financial magazine, Finans, releases its list of the richest Russians. Expect a staggering figure for Prokhorov, maybe as high as $20 billion. He's done quite well this year. He is also an increasingly powerful figure in Russia. He met with Russian President Medvedev Thursday in Tomsk, deep in Siberia. He's part of Medvedev's commission on the modernization of the Russian economy.

Brooklyn issues are going to delay him taking control of the Nets til close to the end of the season. I am told he's already sent a large chunk of the cash he promised across the ocean but the deal does not close until, as Al Iannazzone has reported, everything and everyone is cleared off the property. That can't happen until April the way things are going. I don't expect the critics to give up.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby GMJ » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:07 am

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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:22 am

That isn't compassion, that is incompetence
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby MrDollarBills » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:13 pm

cpawfan wrote:That isn't compassion, that is incompetence


Utter and sheer incompetence.

I'm alarmed at the talk about the Russian keeping Thorn on as well. It's time for Rod to go and take that son of a GO NETS!!! Kiki with him
13-69, easily.



-Mr. Dollar Bills prediction back in June, as seen in the "What do you think the nets record will be" Thread. 10 wins and you can call me Nostradamous. I also read palms and predict lottery numbers.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby NetIncome » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:14 pm

IN the current issue of the Harvard Business Review, Prokhorov is ranked the 22nd best performing CEO in the world. So at this point, I've got to trust his judgment.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby canofan42 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:32 pm

NetIncome wrote:IN the current issue of the Harvard Business Review, Prokhorov is ranked the 22nd best performing CEO in the world. So at this point, I've got to trust his judgment.


Out of curiosity, who are the top 5?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby danxcr` » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:34 pm

I really want to see what Rod can do with an owner with very DEEP pockets. I know a lot of us are negative about Rod and i cannot blame you, but remember his trades have been great, its his Drafting that has hurts us. As much as id like to see a new president/gm in there, i am not disappointed in keeping Thorn. :)
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby BadKiki » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:12 pm

Just out of curiousity -- I don't have the chance right now to look it over -- how many currently or willing to be active executives have built NBA Finals' teams?

While the Colangelo-Coach K-Redeem Team dream is fun...I don't think it's that much of a negative to have Thorn in charge going forward.

That isn't to say I think he will or won't get it done...I'm merely saying he's proven before he can turn around a team in this (well, not THIS) situation.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby NetIncome » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:45 pm

Mitch Kupchak, R.C. Buford, Danny Ainge, Joe Dumars have all won championships. I don't think any of the other current GM's have won.

On the other hand, young GMs Daryl Morey and Sam Presti have done very very well in Houston and OKC.

The question is with a new owner, new coach, new arena, all that cap room and draft picks, do you want to add a new GM immediately. I think the solution will be a short contract to Thorn and the hiring of some money ball type assistant. There's always capologist Bobby Marks, who unlike everyone else in the front office, has a deal through next season.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:32 pm

NetIncome wrote:IN the current issue of the Harvard Business Review, Prokhorov is ranked the 22nd best performing CEO in the world. So at this point, I've got to trust his judgment.


I was wondering what the angle of the spin was going to be
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