Sports blogs for fans, by fans.

The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Nets-related discussion.

Knowing what we know now, would you have still done the Wallace trade?

Yes
11
79%
No
3
21%
 
Total votes : 14

The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby idelbi » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:13 am

The total results of the trade are in: Mehmet Okur, Shawne Williams, and the sixth pick in the 2012 draft for Gerald Wallace and a $3 million traded player exceptions (which turned into Reggie Evans and the right to swap 2016 second rounders with the Clippers) and a second TPE for a little more than a vet's minimum contract.

At the time, because of the year long holding pattern in pursuit of Dwight, the Nets were historically bad at the SF position and badly needed an upgrade. Getting a player of Wallace's caliber would show Deron that the Nets were serious about improving the team and were trying to get into the playoffs (helping to convince Deron to re-sign come summer time). Additionally, there was hope that with Wallace and Lopez, the two main pieces of an earlier rumored trade with Orlando, the Nets could reopen trade discussions for Dwight in the summer, even though both would be free agents. The big risks were the Nets losing their draft pick in a key off-season with only 4 players signed, possibly leaving the Nets with no big trade assets and no franchise player to build around.

Let's take a look at how each of these played out:
The draft pick: Lopez never returned from injury and Wallace alone proved to not be enough to make the playoffs. He was good enough to keep the Nets out of the race to the bottom so the Nets draft pick ended up right around where it was slotted to be before the trade: 6th. With plans to keep Deron and Wallace on board, the Nets were unlikely to draft Damian Lillard or Harrison Barnes, but it would be great to have Andre Drummond on this squad to provide some interior defense and some insurance in case of another Lopez injury.

Gerald Wallace re-signed: There was a lot of fear that since Wallace was a free agent, the Nets could have ended up with neither Wallace nor the pick. This gave way to the realization that between Prokhy's deep pockets and BK's likely effort to save face from the trade, Wallace was going to re-sign with the Nets. The only question was how much. He re-signed for 4 years and $40 million. It was more than he could get on the market, but less than what many feared his agent could extract out of Billy King.

Deron Williams re-signed: After Williams re-signed, he said his decision between the Nets and Mavs was very difficult and the two situations were close, but the Joe Johnson trade tipped the scales in favor of the Nets. There are two things to take away from this: a) Gerald Wallace alone would not have been enough to convince Deron to stay with the Nets. b) Without Gerald Wallace, we wouldn't even have been close and Deron could have signed with the Mavs.

Trading for Dwight: The expected Dwightmare IV around the trade deadline, when Wallace and Lopez would be eligible to be traded, never happened. As we all know, the Magic traded Dwight for a package of players and draft picks of much less value than the Nets were offering. The Nets always had the best offer, but once Dwight waived his ETO, as he proclaimed himself in his recent interview, he left the decision up to the Orlando front office. He lost all his leverage. Some believe that if the Nets had that draft pick, Dwight would have been a Net right now. Given what offer the Magic accepted in lieu of what the Nets had on the table, it seems clear that the Magic were not looking to trade with the Nets regardless what was being offered.

The traded player exceptions: One small (perceived) victory of the trade was getting rid of Shawne Williams' dead weight contract and turning it into a player exception worth $3 million. The second, smaller TPE was never of much worth. The bigger TPE turned into Reggie Evans on a reasonable 3 year deal. However, Evans, at best, is slotted as the 4th big man in the rotation. Additionally, had the first year of his contract started at about 100k less, he could have been fit into the smaller TPE, leaving the larger TPE for another rotation player. Wasting the larger $3M TPE meant that BK might have either been able to keep Shawne Williams in return for better protection on the pick or used him as an expiring contract later this season. Since the Nets never had cap space, having Shawne Williams on the roster would not have affected any of the other off-season moves.

I still think that the trade was a bad one to make at the time, but I'm ecstatic with the way things turned out. In hindsight, I would have preferred if BK get a much better protection on the draft pick (similar to the protection that was on GSW pick we had), used the smaller TPE to acquire Evans, andkept Shawne Williams out of the trade (hire Stackhouse as an assistant coach).
idelbi
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby ghoti » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:29 pm

idelbi wrote:Deron Williams re-signed: After Williams re-signed, he said his decision between the Nets and Mavs was very difficult and the two situations were close, but the Joe Johnson trade tipped the scales in favor of the Nets. There are two things to take away from this: a) Gerald Wallace alone would not have been enough to convince Deron to stay with the Nets. b) Without Gerald Wallace, we wouldn't even have been close and Deron could have signed with the Mavs.


Well, there you go.
Image gfx by gmj
ghoti's 2012-13 Opening Night Starting Five - HELLO BROOKLYN!

Dream RUINED! Thanks for #$%@! NOTHING, Billy King!

http://twitter.com/ghoti00
User avatar
ghoti
Global Mod
 
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:43 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby fanetics » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:55 pm

There was a DWill quote recently stating that he couldn't imagine himself signing with the Nets or playing in NY. So the BK gamble worked.
And that's what exactly happened to Wallace. BK knows that once they're here, they will have a first hand experience and exposed to what the franchise are doing.
Yeah, the trade was not perfect as far as the Nets are concerned. That it could have been protected better, yada yada yada. But who knows, the Blazers might have negotiated for that, and might not have been consumated if the protection goes beyond top 3.

Now, Wallace is just a piece. Not the biggest piece, but just a piece of the puzzle. Without him, it'll still be hard for Deron to see the direction of the team even after acquiring JJ.
With Wallace AND JJ, and with either DH or BL, the starting lineup looks solid.

By the way as I mentioned in the comments, the first time it got reported that the JJ trade made Deron re-signed with the Nets, was BS. The trade might have tipped the delicate balance, but I think the favor turned heavily on the Nets advantage after the Mavs meeting.
fanetics
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:09 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby canofan42 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Say what you want about the trade, but the bottom line is, if it had any impact whatsoever in keeping Deron, it was worth it. Some people argue that if we had had the 6th pick, that would have been enough for us to get Dwight from the Magic. Maybe, maybe not, but what if the Magic really just didn't want to trade him to us? Deron could have potentially left, and this we would be going into Brooklyn with a rebuilding team.

The move was definitely a high risk, high reward, and maybe it did prevent us from getting Dwight, but it helped us keep Deron, and in the end, that was the biggest reward of the movie. Not to mention, Gerald Wallace isn't too shabby of a player himself, who I think is very underrated by people right now. He'll have a larger impact on this team than people think, for sure.
Image
User avatar
canofan42
 
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby furnace » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:20 pm

canofan42 wrote:Say what you want about the trade, but the bottom line is, if it had any impact whatsoever in keeping Deron, it was worth it. Some people argue that if we had had the 6th pick, that would have been enough for us to get Dwight from the Magic. Maybe, maybe not, but what if the Magic really just didn't want to trade him to us? Deron could have potentially left, and this we would be going into Brooklyn with a rebuilding team.

The move was definitely a high risk, high reward, and maybe it did prevent us from getting Dwight, but it helped us keep Deron, and in the end, that was the biggest reward of the movie. Not to mention, Gerald Wallace isn't too shabby of a player himself, who I think is very underrated by people right now. He'll have a larger impact on this team than people think, for sure.



How can you say that the Wallace trade prevented Dwight from coming to the Nets?

Dwight's own stupidity prevented him from coming to the Nets.
In response to a fan's question, Kidd said: "Alot of times, Vince takes...I don't want to call them bad shots...but he takes alot of tough shots..." [Nets Town Hall, June 25th, 2007]
User avatar
furnace
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby rory » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:41 pm

In my opinion, the Wallace trade did nothing to help the Nets retain Deron Williams. Deron has never cited it in any interview. In fact, this article came out shortly after the trade, where it looked like Deron was trying to distance himself from the trade. Again, this is all speculation, but I believe this trade did more to get him interested in Dallas than in Brooklyn (and I have as much proof as those saying the trade made him believe Brooklyn was a serious contender).

Also, this trade wasn't for the sixth pick in the draft. Getting Wallace helped the Nets win more games - without Wallace, the Nets would have lost more and gotten a higher seed (remember, they actually tied for the 5th pick, but lost the coinflip). So, instead of just speculating how Harrison Barnes could have played on the Nets (or Magic), we could speculate how David, MKG, or Beal would have been instead of Wallace.

This is not to disparage Wallace as a player - I think he's a good fit for this team. But there's a reason why no Portland fans are debating the pros/cons of this trade 6 months later. It was an absolute win for Portland, and a loss for Brooklyn.
Slippery When Nets - as seen on NetsDaily and Ball Don't Lie!

Updated 5/26 - LeBron James and the Dangers of Living Vicariously
(Please become a follower!)
User avatar
rory
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby cpawfan » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:32 pm

It was the 6th pick and the Nets now have a roster that is set to compete now. As bonus, the Nets didn't draft Barnes.

So I consider this a win-win
User avatar
cpawfan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:01 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby canofan42 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:13 pm

furnace wrote:

How can you say that the Wallace trade prevented Dwight from coming to the Nets?

Dwight's own stupidity prevented him from coming to the Nets.


I don't think the Wallace trade is what prevented Dwight from coming to the Nets, but I've seen some people on the main page argue that if we had had our pick, that pick combined with everything else we were offering for Dwight would have been enough for the Magic to deal Dwight to us, so I was just simply addressing that notion; I don't really agree with it.
Image
User avatar
canofan42
 
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby pegs » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:27 pm

cpawfan wrote:It was the 6th pick and the Nets now have a roster that is set to compete now. As bonus, the Nets didn't draft Barnes.

So I consider this a win-win

This is the only post I could undoubtedly agree with. Seriously, Harrison Barnes sucks.

:D
User avatar
pegs
Moderator
 
Posts: 4198
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:06 pm
Location: Utica

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby rory » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:17 pm

cpawfan wrote:It was the 6th pick and the Nets now have a roster that is set to compete now. As bonus, the Nets didn't draft Barnes.

So I consider this a win-win


Ah, pithy, condescending posts. How I missed the NetsDaily forums!

It wasn't a draft-day trade, where the 6th pick was set in stone. After the trade, in a radio interview, Billy King said "We're at the 6th pick now, and we only expect to get better." (they were 1 game away from being the 4th pick at the time he said this). Those were his words justifying the trade, and they were proven wrong.

I know everything worked out fine for the Nets (so far), but that doesn't mean they did everything perfect. Not every trade can be the second greatest day in Nets history, like the Troy Murphy trade was.
Slippery When Nets - as seen on NetsDaily and Ball Don't Lie!

Updated 5/26 - LeBron James and the Dangers of Living Vicariously
(Please become a follower!)
User avatar
rory
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby fanetics » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:51 pm

It's clear the Magic is not going to trade Dwight to the Nets.
So no matter how good the Nets offers are, it's not going to happen.
Even if we got lucky and got Davis ...
fanetics
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:09 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby cpawfan » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:38 pm

rory wrote:
Ah, pithy, condescending posts. How I missed the NetsDaily forums!

It wasn't a draft-day trade, where the 6th pick was set in stone. After the trade, in a radio interview, Billy King said "We're at the 6th pick now, and we only expect to get better." (they were 1 game away from being the 4th pick at the time he said this). Those were his words justifying the trade, and they were proven wrong.

I know everything worked out fine for the Nets (so far), but that doesn't mean they did everything perfect. Not every trade can be the second greatest day in Nets history, like the Troy Murphy trade was.


I always take what front office types say to the media with a huge grain of salt. They are mostly carefully measured and spun statements.

This trade was a giant gamble and it worked. All posturing to the media aside, this is a trade that can only be evaluated in the big picture after the draft and free agency.

The only valuable analysis question about this trade is "would you have taken the risk?" King did and it worked out. We also have to accept that King knew more than we did at the time of the trade. He is the one who had private conversations with Deron. (And again, I don't take statements to the media as gospel)
User avatar
cpawfan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:01 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby CalamityX04 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:59 am

Trading a top 3 protected pick for Crash, no. No way. Wallace cost us youth and $ down the road. He's a good hustle player but IDK. Not for our unprotected(essentially) pick in a season where we sucked.

As the pick fell where it fell, could it been used for D12? could it have gotten someone else whose younger than Wallace? I feel there were more possibilities for us to gain had we kept the pick over Wallace. Trading for Wallace was a panic move by King, totally get raped by Portland IMHO.

After saying that, I'm still happy for him as a player, I hope he comes through for us, we have the starting 5 to win now, we're not really athletic but we'll see how far it goes. I'll root him like any fan would but in hindsight or before, this was a bad move.
WE are Nobody Expects To Succeed

2011 NDF Bracket Champion
User avatar
CalamityX04
 
Posts: 5249
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:58 pm

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby pegs » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:38 pm

Wallace might have been gotten for cheaper. Who knows. I don't know what Portland was thinking, or what Billy was thinking. I do think that it was a move caused by Dwight picking up his option - kind of a last-stitch effort to improve before the trade deadline was over.

I also think that it was a move that was meant to show Deron that they were serious about competing now. I don't think Billy made the move with the expectation that it'd be the only move he'd make. I think he figured that this was step 1, and that a move like picking up JJ was step 2 in re-signing Deron.

I don't really know if all of that is true, that's just my take on it. I do know for a fact that we would not have made that trade if we had a chance at getting Dwight before the end of the deadline or at the end of the season. So, blame Dwight.
User avatar
pegs
Moderator
 
Posts: 4198
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:06 pm
Location: Utica

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby fanetics » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:09 pm

Lots of IFs and unknowns.
BK knew what he is doing, and went for a concrete decision. Might be a panic move, but it did work in the end.
Like what they said, a bird in hand ...
fanetics
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:09 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby ghoti » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:02 am

CalamityX04 wrote:Trading a top 3 protected pick for Crash, no. No way. Wallace cost us youth and $ down the road. He's a good hustle player but IDK. Not for our unprotected(essentially) pick in a season where we sucked.

As the pick fell where it fell, could it been used for D12? could it have gotten someone else whose younger than Wallace? I feel there were more possibilities for us to gain had we kept the pick over Wallace. Trading for Wallace was a panic move by King, totally get raped by Portland IMHO.

After saying that, I'm still happy for him as a player, I hope he comes through for us, we have the starting 5 to win now, we're not really athletic but we'll see how far it goes. I'll root him like any fan would but in hindsight or before, this was a bad move.


idelbi wrote:Deron Williams re-signed: After Williams re-signed, he said his decision between the Nets and Mavs was very difficult and the two situations were close, but the Joe Johnson trade tipped the scales in favor of the Nets. There are two things to take away from this: a) Gerald Wallace alone would not have been enough to convince Deron to stay with the Nets. b) Without Gerald Wallace, we wouldn't even have been close and Deron could have signed with the Mavs.
Image gfx by gmj
ghoti's 2012-13 Opening Night Starting Five - HELLO BROOKLYN!

Dream RUINED! Thanks for #$%@! NOTHING, Billy King!

http://twitter.com/ghoti00
User avatar
ghoti
Global Mod
 
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:43 am

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby rory » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:59 am

Jason Kidd resigned with the Nets in 2003, so, in hindsight, Alonzo Mourning was a great signing.
Slippery When Nets - as seen on NetsDaily and Ball Don't Lie!

Updated 5/26 - LeBron James and the Dangers of Living Vicariously
(Please become a follower!)
User avatar
rory
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: NYC

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby Dumpy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:23 pm

rory wrote:Jason Kidd resigned with the Nets in 2003, so, in hindsight, Alonzo Mourning was a great signing.


Not to mention that his contract was necessary to land Vince!
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. --Albert Einstein
User avatar
Dumpy
Moderator
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:19 am
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby Drew » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:36 pm

Dumpy wrote:
Not to mention that his contract was necessary to land Vince!


Not only that, but I'm sure Zo being with the Nets contributed in some way to them NOT resigning K-Mart!
User avatar
Drew
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:26 pm

Re: The Gerald Wallace Trade in hindsight

Postby Eduardo's Empanada » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:01 am

Trade was and still is an abortion.

Some very reasonable probability that pick was the #1 overall and pretty much a stone cold lock for top 4.

It's not about the kid that would have been drafted, it's about what that pick would have been traded for on draft night by a more responsible and level headed GM.

It was a panic move.

Good chance it quite literally cost us Dwight. I really don't care about all the warm fuzzy make yourself feel good inside and justify it nonsense of Orlando just not trading with us, we had the #1 overall, Anthony Davis is a Magic in late June, it's really that simple.

I'm sort of happy with this team now. I mean I'm absolutely excited to watch it, but I'm not satisfied with it, we're not a real contender right now.

Even if not Dwight, there's a chance we could have had Aldridge on draft night.

You start talking about picks that high on draft night, especially 1st and 2nd overall, even 3rd and 4th overall picks, those picks and some other assets open doors that were thought to be locked. That pick, it's still a player and prospect that's an unknown. It's a Christmas present, or a mystery box, the golden ticket. Real life GM's and owners love the allure of them almost as much as the fans. It's when they get to put their imprint on a franchise.

Eh, whatever. This season should be a lot of fun and things can open up again in the future. Maybe Brook plays out of his mind finally and we land someone who's a true perfect fit next to him like Al Horford or Noah or someone? Maybe we play completely intact this year and make a deep run and draft night next year something that makes us a legit contender happens. It'll be a fun ride anyway. Sometimes I wish I didn't even reply in these topics, I just hate when the obvious becomes a bunch of company spin spit as facts, then what people such as myself say is labeled as "You don't know, it's all a bunch of ifs!" Cause yeah lol, you can really say definitively we do things differently Deron walks...
Image
User avatar
Eduardo's Empanada
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:00 pm
Location: A True Underdog Story

Next

Return to Nets

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests