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Favors vs Cousins

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Favors vs Cousins

Postby dex » Tue May 18, 2010 9:22 pm

If we draft him, I quit. Cousins is a much more talented player, and it's not even close.
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Re: Derrick Favors.

Postby Belarus » Tue May 18, 2010 10:08 pm

dex wrote:If we draft him, I quit. Cousins is a much more talented player, and it's not even close.

HAhaha some of our posters threatened to relocate and become fans of Thunder if we draft Cousins. It will be brutal time before the draft as I can see Nets fanbase being split in halves - Favors/Cousins. Thank God I'm going to Europe and coming back by FA signings so I can cheer up a new Net wearing #23 ;)


P.S. Favors for me. Strong character speaks volumes for me. Cousins, no matter how talented is lacking maturity and we got enough of immature players.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby Big Tom » Wed May 19, 2010 12:38 pm

Favors would be much better than Cousins for the chemistry of this team, both on the court and in the locker room. And, yes, chemistry is important to becoming a winning team. If they draft Cousins, it better be for a reason we don't yet know about, because the guy plays Brook's position and will be a mental headache...we already have TWill and CDR to supply that, thank you very much.
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Re: How raw is Favors?

Postby dex » Thu May 20, 2010 6:27 am

CalamityX04 wrote:Everyone who mentions Favors not reaching the big numbers or performances due to battling with Lawal for touches, how will that be different once he's paired up with Brook?

EXACTLY. Great, GREAT point. Thank you.
Big Tom wrote:Favors would be much better than Cousins for the chemistry of this team, both on the court and in the locker room. And, yes, chemistry is important to becoming a winning team. If they draft Cousins, it better be for a reason we don't yet know about, because the guy plays Brook's position and will be a mental headache...we already have TWill and CDR to supply that, thank you very much.

Please. This whole issue is so overblown. Did Cousins cause any chemistry issues in kentucky? Come one.
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Re: How raw is Favors?

Postby dex » Thu May 20, 2010 6:36 am

Vuchato wrote:Hard to really tell. He was the ACC freshman of the year, and had some very impressive games. But the system he played in was bad, the guards at GT were terrible at getting him and Lawal the ball, and he had to fight with Lawal for touches.

Enough with the excuses. He's a fairly limited player on O, period. And it's not like we have a pass 1st PG or that many playmakers, so Favors wouldn't be a good fit here. He needs to play next to a Jason Kidd.
GMJigga wrote:I don't think it will be different, but I also don't think we need that right away. We need post defense and rebounding, along with having another guy who can run the break.

Cousins is a superior rebounder to him.
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Re: How raw is Favors?

Postby cpawfan » Thu May 20, 2010 10:39 am

dex wrote:Cousins is a superior rebounder to him.


Favors outrebounded Cousins when they went head to head in High School 19 to 12
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Re: How raw is Favors?

Postby GMJ » Thu May 20, 2010 11:37 am

CalamityX04 wrote:Everyone who mentions Favors not reaching the big numbers or performances due to battling with Lawal for touches, how will that be different once he's paired up with Brook?.


Well this is going to apply to both Favors or Cousins. What we've got to look at then is can either guy score in ways different to Brook, or can they offer something to the front court if it's not their scoring (but really, Brook isn't getting 100% of all post touches every game)

You don't get anything new with Cousins, but with Favors you get a guy who can run the break. Brook has strides like that of a gazelle but it's not his role. Beyond scoring you're going to need someone who can consistently rebound the ball (you get that in both prospects), and consistently play defense in both the post and weakside shotblocking. To this end, Favors is the better player.
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Re: How raw is Favors?

Postby CalamityX04 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 pm

GMJigga wrote: Well this is going to apply to both Favors or Cousins. What we've got to look at then is can either guy score in ways different to Brook, or can they offer something to the front court if it's not their scoring (but really, Brook isn't getting 100% of all post touches every game)

You don't get anything new with Cousins, but with Favors you get a guy who can run the break. Brook has strides like that of a gazelle but it's not his role. Beyond scoring you're going to need someone who can consistently rebound the ball (you get that in both prospects), and consistently play defense in both the post and weakside shotblocking. To this end, Favors is the better player.


You're right, it will apply to both, always saw Cousins more offense oriented than Favors. Favors offers more in the defense than Cousins but both should be excellent rebounders.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby mb4th » Thu May 20, 2010 1:19 pm

Im not sure which is the definitive Favors/Cousins thread but heres a point I will make.

Would Cousins be a fill in the blanks guy? In his ind hes a superstar and hes not going to do the dirty work so a goofball like Lopez can get all his shots.

Favors will hustle for you
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby CalamityX04 » Fri May 21, 2010 10:00 am

mb4th wrote:Im not sure which is the definitive Favors/Cousins thread but heres a point I will make.

Would Cousins be a fill in the blanks guy? In his ind hes a superstar and hes not going to do the dirty work so a goofball like Lopez can get all his shots.

Favors will hustle for you


That's what i get too. I feel Favors will be that hustle guy, he will get his pts by whatever means, but he'll definitely be force in the paint area in rebounding, block shots, boxing out etc...

Cousins, the guy should be a good player, but much more offense oriented, which isn't bad, but perhaps not the direction we want to take in terms of teaming up with Brook?
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby dex » Fri May 21, 2010 10:05 am

You can get a hustle player in free agency or using one of our later picks. And Cousins is way tougher than Favors anyways, Derrick needs to be more aggressive.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby Netted » Fri May 21, 2010 10:07 am

dex wrote:You can get a hustle player in free agency or using one of our later picks. And Cousins is way tougher than Favors anyways, Derrick needs to be more aggressive.

Are you Cousins' agent?

Seriously, it's like everytime someone says something about Favors it's time to cue the Cousins promotion.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby Newark2Brooklyn » Fri May 21, 2010 6:02 pm

Actually I think it matters more than you think. This is a swim-or-die league, and if you don't think you're great, or at least exude confidence, you never will be.

People love to misinterpret Cousins's confidence as a weakness - it gives them a story, a foil. But in reality a guy who very clearly says "yes, I think I can be a franchise player" with his skill level is nothing to sneeze at.
My opinions are valid.

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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby cpawfan » Fri May 21, 2010 6:07 pm

Newark2Brooklyn wrote:Actually I think it matters more than you think. This is a swim-or-die league, and if you don't think you're great, or at least exude confidence, you never will be.

People love to misinterpret Cousins's confidence as a weakness - it gives them a story, a foil. But in reality a guy who very clearly says "yes, I think I can be a franchise player" with his skill level is nothing to sneeze at.


If a player believes he is never good enough and constantly works to improve himself, that is far, far better than someone saying they can be a franchise player.

Kobe is the rare guy that does both. Chris Bosh is the guy that just says it to the media.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby dex » Sat May 22, 2010 7:08 am

cpawfan wrote:If a player believes he is never good enough and constantly works to improve himself, that is far, far better than someone saying they can be a franchise player.

Kobe is the rare guy that does both. Chris Bosh is the guy that just says it to the media.

Wait a minute, it's not like Favors hasn't said something like that:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... usins.html
The confident 18-year-old Favors envisions himself as having the same type of impact as Amare Stoudemire and Kevin Garnett, setting the bar pretty high for himself.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby dex » Sat May 22, 2010 10:16 am

Give me a break. So you are throwing Cousins under the bus for calling himself a potential franchise player and you defend a guy who says he thinks he could have a similar impact to that Stoudemire or Garnett had, a guy who actually hasn't lived up to the hype? Remember, this is a guy who was seen as the best or 2nd best prospect out of high school, and was considered a player who could go number 1 in the draft before the season started, but after a year in college he couldn't be rawer, despite being a "hard worker". But hey, you'll keep hearing the magic word. Potential, potential, potential.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby dex » Sat May 22, 2010 11:21 am

bam09 wrote:Favors saying he can maybe be like Stoudemire or Garnett one day shows he has the quiet confidence needed, to go along with his humble personality. I don't see the problem. It's not "I am the best, I should go number one, there is zero wrong with me"

Unbelievable. :lol:

I love double standars.

All I'll add is, if Favors is that "talented" and is such a "hard worker", please explain to me why he is so raw. Cousins, whom his haters call "lazy" is head and shoulders above him as a player, and it's not even close and has made bigger strides since the season started. And again, Favors didn't lived to his hype already, so excuse me if I don't buy the "potential" argument. He was considered the best high school prospect or 2nd best, I don't remember. And I remember Chad Ford quoted NBA GMs as saying they thought Favors could have had a shot at going number 1 in the draft before the season started, I'll look for the link.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby mb4th » Sat May 22, 2010 11:58 am

dex wrote:I don't think it's ridiculous and I think it's more ridiculous to think a 12 win team should draft for need.

Defense is the only key aspect of the game Favors is better than Cousins at.

Cousins is a far better offensive player, we all know that. Footwork. Ability to put the ball on the floor. Better mid-range game. Ball handling skills. I've seen this kid steal the ball halfcourt and dunk the other end after handling the ball all the way from midcourt. That's something Favors cannot even dream about being able to do.

Cousins is a better rebounder than Favors. People keep bringing Favors' ability to rebound the ball as a reason to draft him, but fact is Cousins is a superior rebounder to him. People try to downplay Cousins' rebounding numbers because of his size, but this kid really BANGS inside. I could say Favors should have been a better rebounder too due to his freakish athleticism. He hasn't been all that impressive of a rebounder at all college, despite having superior physical tools.

Some also like to call Cousins "selfish" or a black hole on O, yet he is better than Favors at passing the ball and finding the open off double teams. Favors has a tough time reading those situations and is a bad passer. Cousins has a higher BB IQ.


I've seen this kid steal the ball halfcourt and dunk the other end after handling the ball all the way from midcourt. That's something Favors cannot even dream about being able to do


:roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Od-U5IF4s

[youtube]99Od-U5IF4s[/youtube]



Youre love of Cousins doesnt have to equate to hate of Derrick Favors. It will only hurt more when we draft him
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby Nets4Life » Sat May 22, 2010 12:02 pm

dex wrote:Unbelievable. :lol:

I love double standars.

All I'll add is, if Favors is that "talented" and is such a "hard worker", please explain to me why he is so raw. Cousins, whom his haters call "lazy" is head and shoulders above him as a player, and it's not even close and has made bigger strides since the season started. And again, Favors didn't lived to his hype already, so excuse me if I don't buy the "potential" argument. He was considered the best high school prospect or 2nd best, I don't remember. And I remember Chad Ford quoted NBA GMs as saying they thought Favors could have had a shot at going number 1 in the draft before the season started, I'll look for the link.


Favors didn't have the guardplay that Cousins had. That makes a HUGE difference when you are talking about big man development (on offense). Cousins had double-digit touches almost every game; Favors had only a handful of games where he had double-digit touches.

Also, you should read Lawal's and Orton's comments (teammates of Favors and Cousins, respectively). That should tell you a lot about their differences and the fact that any "rawness" in Favors game is compensated by being "real coachable" and is better than having a "big little kid" on your team.

Lawal's comments:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/for ... 2EuMIIY1ZK

Orton's/Wall's comments:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... 3/5200361/

I used to give Cousins the benefit of the doubt, but after this, its clear who I DON'T want on this team. If you combine what Orton/Wall said about Cousins, he has the attitude of a high-school man-child with a temper problem.
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Re: Derrick Favors

Postby bam09 » Sat May 22, 2010 12:03 pm

dex wrote:Unbelievable. :lol:

I love double standars.

All I'll add is, if Favors is that "talented" and is such a "hard worker", please explain to me why he is so raw. Cousins, whom his haters call "lazy" is head and shoulders above him as a player, and it's not even close and has made bigger strides since the season started. And again, Favors didn't lived to his hype already, so excuse me if I don't buy the "potential" argument. He was considered the best high school prospect or 2nd best, I don't remember. And I remember Chad Ford quoted NBA GMs as saying they thought Favors could have had a shot at going number 1 in the draft before the season started, I'll look for the link.


There's a difference bud. One guy has been pimping himself every chance he gets, and the other guy answered a question one time saying he can maybe become Garnett or Stoudemire one day. Favors recognizes that he isn't the best prospect in the draft currently, and has no problem giving Wall his dues. Cousins on the other hand has Wall boosting him, and then turns around and says "I am the best in the draft" "I am a franchise player."

Cousins sees the need to pimp himself, while Favors understands that his talking is done on the court.

Favors is raw because he doesn't have a defined post game yet, he turns the ball over a bit much, he isn't the best passer out of the post, and his range isn't the great outside of 8 feet. He's labelled raw because he has the natural ability, athleticism and generally good instincts to improve everything above. It's quite similar to Amar'e really, Dwight Howard even had similar things said(before you take it the wrong way, Dwight is the better prospect by a good margin).

Cousins would be the pick if he had Favors attitude. There's no denying that right now he is the better basketball player, and next year you will probably be here telling us we were wrong about him and so on. The thing with Cousins is that he's similar to Coleman and Randolph in that he'll get his 17-20/10 but not have a big impact on the game or his team. A stat stuffer. He'll probably have a career like that.

Favors on the other hand will take a few years to develop(which we can afford), and you'll sit at your computer laughing at us, but as he gets older, he will start putting everything together and become a 20+/10 guy with a strong impact on his team.
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