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DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby cpawfan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:21 am

GMJ wrote:There's nothing overwhelming nor definitive to say he can't succeed at playing SG. Just because he knows zone defense doesn't mean he doesn't know how to play man defense. He's an excellent playmaker, since he was the star that lead Syracuse to unexpectedly be one of the better teams this past season. After reviewing the argument the criticism comes down to passing ability and ball handling, which has not been substantiated beyond stating this opinion and is otherwise weak as it pertains to a SG on a team that does not require these skills out of a third player in the backcourt (the first two being Devin and Terrence Williams).


Replace SG with PF. Replace Syracuse with Kentucky etc, etc

You are attempting to create a condition where there are no right or wrong answers. In that case lets all pull out our mats and gather around for circle time followed by a nice little nap. After we get up, we will all receive a nice certificate and a pretty ribbon for participating.

As to your Nets specific statement, you are offering up the opinion that Wes can play SG for the Nets if he is playing with TWill and Harris. A lineup, mind you, in which there isn't a clear distinction of who is playing on the ball on offense and who is playing off the ball. So yes, in that specific situation, they could play together, and between the 3 of them, they would match up defensively with their best fit and on offense Wes would primarily be a spot up shooter.

However, the scope of can Wes play SG is really not that narrow. Wes doesn't compare favorably to the best two SG's in the game, Kobe and Wade. Nor does he compare to Ray Allen or Manu Ginobolli. So who does he compare to at SG? He is more well rounded than Michael Redd, but not the scorer that Monta Ellis is. Skill wise he is below Evans and Mayo. Beyond all of that, you still have to go back to opportunity cost of the draft pick and how to best utilize Wes if he is drafted as the Nets centerpiece of this draft.

This entire argument has taken a trip to pedantic-ville. So fine, you want to believe he can play SG, great.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby Kid Chocolate » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:27 am

I don't take it that Wes Johnson has a weak handle as a fact when the person I trust most for Syracuse basketball (Pegs) said it's untrue.

I also don't see the need for a player to have a comparable player that is currently in the NBA. Who cares if there is no comparable players to him. He can be a one of a kind type player. When Lebron James came into the NBA, did people say "well he can't play SG, he doesn't compare to any current SG's."

Also, I think everyone is putting too much stock into playing him at SG. I don't think anyone really meant to play him at SG full time. Remember it all started just because Calamity said Wes can play SG, and then Cpaw said no he can't. It's going way deeper than it should. In regards to that, just saying "no he can't" doesn't suffice. Regardless of how many threads it was said in, back up your opinion (even if you think it's fact). I doubt someone is going to say Wes Johnson can play SG and just accept a rebuttal of "no he can't" with the reasoning of "it's been said before, I"m not saying it again". That's just silly to expect that.

I don't know how DeMarcus Cousins and PF came into this either, that's absolutely irrelevant. Whether or not Cousins can play PF has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Wes Johnson playing SG.

I barely know what anyone is arguing what anymore, the amount of basketball talk in this whole thread is minimal. Get back to talking about basketball instead of arguing about absolutely nothing.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby cpawfan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:55 am

I love it, one person has been pulling this discussion towards the pedantic and another is complaining because it went that direction.

Back to Wes, there is nothing he does now better than Nicolas Batum and Batum struggles when he has to spend minutes at SG.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby D-Lightning » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:35 am

New video of Wes arriving in NY, John Wall makes cameo appearance.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/draft/2010/06/22/20100622_johnson_arrival.nba/

and oh im all for drafting Wes Johnson :)
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby GMJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 pm

cpawfan wrote:
1+1=2 doesn't need an explanation


Only on SportsTwo, or RealGM.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby GMJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:50 pm

cpawfan wrote:As to your Nets specific statement, you are offering up the opinion that Wes can play SG for the Nets if he is playing with TWill and Harris. A lineup, mind you, in which there isn't a clear distinction of who is playing on the ball on offense and who is playing off the ball. So yes, in that specific situation, they could play together, and between the 3 of them, they would match up defensively with their best fit and on offense Wes would primarily be a spot up shooter.


The "specific situation" of him, the starting SG, playing with our starting PG and our starting SF?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4155&start=20#p71514

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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby GMJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:53 pm

Eduardo's Empanada wrote:
I guess Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard were excellent playmakers as well then?


They were definitely playmakers, on both sides of the ball. They made plays. I suspect that we're using different definitions of the word. What did you mean?
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby cpawfan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:01 pm

GMJ wrote:
The "specific situation" of him, the starting SG, playing with our starting PG and our starting SF?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4155&start=20#p71514

[ http://www.nelsonguirado.com/media/blogs/religion/shrug.jpg ]


So you pick those two words instead of "A lineup, mind you, in which there isn't a clear distinction of who is playing on the ball on offense and who is playing off the ball."

A lineup in which the player you are labeling the SF would play like a traditional PG and initiating the offense while the labeled PG would play like a slashing SG like Iverson and the labeled SG would be spotting up in the corner of running off of a screen like Marion with the Suns.

What if Rudy Gay is the SF and Devin is still the PG? Do you feel comfortable playing Wes big minutes at SG?
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby GMJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:25 pm

I'm not trying to argue that Wes Johnson can only play SG, simply that he can.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby cpawfan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:38 pm

GMJ wrote:I'm not trying to argue that Wes Johnson can only play SG, simply that he can.


Playing SG in name only with TWill and Devin on the court doesn't qualify as being able to play SG to me. That changes the discussion to "How well would Wes pair with TWill on the wings?"

Which of course brings us back to the original question of the value of drafting Wes with the #3 pick. As the entire reason for originally mentioning Wes playing time at SG was in relation to why he would be an ok pick.

The bigger picture is still opportunity cost
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby GMJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:48 pm

Correct. Drafting Wes at 3 is a huge blunder, and I would proudly join as your No. 2 to the Thorn Ban Club. He's an ok pick lower down the board, but only when you pick up additional pieces.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby pegs » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:34 pm

cpawfan wrote:I love it, one person has been pulling this discussion towards the pedantic and another is complaining because it went that direction.

Back to Wes, there is nothing he does now better than Nicolas Batum and Batum struggles when he has to spend minutes at SG.

LOL ok. So now Batum led a team in the best conference in the NCAA? :lol:
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby Eduardo's Empanada » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:38 pm

Nicolas Batum is a fantastic prospect, it isn't a negative to compare the two.
I'd take Batum over Johnson 11 times out of 10 as of right now.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby CalamityX04 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:56 pm

We could always buy the Miami Heat pick at 18 then trade it to Portland for Batum????
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby cpawfan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:04 pm

CalamityX04 wrote:We could always buy the Miami Heat pick at 18 then trade it to Portland for Batum????


Portland wouldn't do that. They know how good and valuable Batum is
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby mb4th » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm

I saw where they turned down Batum for #4 overall
"First I got to get big like Dwight Howard, Im gonna do that"



"We also have Anthony Morrow he’s one of the best for three-point throws. It’s very important for our team. "
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby essrog » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:25 pm

CalamityX04 wrote:We could always buy the Miami Heat pick at 18 then trade it to Portland for Batum????

Slightly off-topic, but the Heat just packaged that #18 with Daequan Cook to OKC for #32. All to clear another $3.5M or so. Their team is now literally Beasley and Chalmers.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby Vuchato » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:06 pm

ChrisMannixSI
There's a massive amount of misdirection going on right now. Within last hour I've heard NJ targeting Johnson, Favors, Cousins and Monroe


Anyone else think Thorn is just getting senile and keeps forgetting who he wants?
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby Vuchato » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:24 pm

DX also said that "apparently Minnesota is offering 16+23+Al Jefferson to Detroit for 7+Tayshaun Prince+Chris Wilcox." which would give them a SF and need a big. Though maybe they'd offer both of those for #2, which might be tough for Philly to turn down.
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Re: DX: Nets will take Wesley Johnson

Postby CalamityX04 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:25 pm

essrog wrote:Slightly off-topic, but the Heat just packaged that #18 with Daequan Cook to OKC for #32. All to clear another $3.5M or so. Their team is now literally Beasley and Chalmers.


Well i didnt know that :P

but thank you.....

OKC could be targeting a big big..... alabi? whiteside?
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