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Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby mb4th » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:10 am

Hes probably too busy counting money to scout nowadays, just let Rod keep his spot and find a young guy wholl put in the hours to learn under him.

Rods respected around the league for a reason, I dont see anyone else claiming hes a joke.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Brooklyn Nets? » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:19 am

Hmm, he got an all-star for a player who demanded a trade. Got a couple young pieces for 2 guys making over 15 million per year who look beyond lost this year, and hes the problem?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby PhilNYC » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:09 am

cpawfan wrote:aka, the official fan club of Fire Rod and Fire Kiki.

Giving these two a deep pocket owner is just going to lead to grandiose acts of incompetence generally reserved for the Oakland Raiders and the Daniel Snyder owned Washington Redskins


I am willing to give Rod and Kiki a chance...I'm guessing that the RAT had all sorts of constraints on Rod that forced him into some decisions that weren't very good. Don't know enough about Kiki's track record to judge him as a GM, but I'd also guess that he'd do things differently without Ratner around.

That said, I'm willing to bet that Proky would want to put his own guy in at one or both of these positions...
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Ast » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:23 am

Kiki needs to go. He's a terrible GM, coach and player evaluator. Plus his mind games are totally unnecessary.

Thorn should be kept in team president role - where he'll have impact on the team, but wont be the main guy. I wouldn't mind young blood in the FO, but I also want Thorn to be there.

I can't understand the belief that he's a terrible GM. He gave us a team that contended for the title 3 years and was in the playoffs for 6. At least say thank you, instead of criticizing him for inability to get over the hump. Yes - a lot of his small signings sucked. But he didn't have any talent to trade for upgrades and had a little FA market to work with. People point fingers at him and say it's his fault. Yeah, he signed McInnis. You're acting as if we had a chance to sign Gary Payton and we didn't do it.
And again, yes, he signed Magloire - which turned out pretty bad. But it's not like he said no to KG.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:36 pm

mb4th wrote:Hes probably too busy counting money to scout nowadays, just let Rod keep his spot and find a young guy wholl put in the hours to learn under him.

Rods respected around the league for a reason, I dont see anyone else claiming hes a joke.


Most fan bases think he is a joke
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:38 pm

Brooklyn Nets? wrote:Hmm, he got an all-star for a player who demanded a trade. Got a couple young pieces for 2 guys making over 15 million per year who look beyond lost this year, and hes the problem?


Calling Devin an All Star is a freaking joke. Look at how he is playing this season. The only thing Devin has going for him is his contract.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Kid Chocolate » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:51 pm

cpawfan wrote:Most fan bases think he is a joke


Why should it matter what "fan bases" think?

These same "fan bases" also hype up their own players incessantly.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:52 pm

Ast wrote:I can't understand the belief that he's a terrible GM. He gave us a team that contended for the title 3 years and was in the playoffs for 6. At least say thank you, instead of criticizing him for inability to get over the hump. Yes - a lot of his small signings sucked. But he didn't have any talent to trade for upgrades and had a little FA market to work with. People point fingers at him and say it's his fault. Yeah, he signed McInnis. You're acting as if we had a chance to sign Gary Payton and we didn't do it.
And again, yes, he signed Magloire - which turned out pretty bad. But it's not like he said no to KG.


He got gift wrapped a motivated Jason Kidd. A man that played at such a high level that he made Scott look like an actual NBA coach instead the babbling fool he really is.

You are down playing moves that demonstrate clearly that he doesn't have what it takes to build a winner unless he gets lucky. He had a chance to draft Danny Granger and didn't. He thought McInnis would help the Nets. He thought Magloire would help the Nets. He thought SAR was the missing piece to win the East with a severely unbalanced roster. He screwed up the Kittles TE by trying to play games with Dumars.

Time after time he mismanaged the assets he had that could have made a difference. It is critical that the Nets have competence in signing free agents and drafting players. Those are two areas where Thorn has repeatedly failed miserably. All of his good work was in trades and the opportunity for trades that benefit the Nets is between now and the trade deadline. So great Rod can handle trading the current expiring contracts and then ride off into the sunset knowing he did something good at the end.

After the 2010 trade deadline, Rod's usefulness to this franchise is over.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby GrandKenyon6 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:14 pm

cpawfan wrote:He got gift wrapped a motivated Jason Kidd. A man that played at such a high level that he made Scott look like an actual NBA coach instead the babbling fool he really is.

You are down playing moves that demonstrate clearly that he doesn't have what it takes to build a winner unless he gets lucky. He had a chance to draft Danny Granger and didn't. He thought McInnis would help the Nets. He thought Magloire would help the Nets. He thought SAR was the missing piece to win the East with a severely unbalanced roster. He screwed up the Kittles TE by trying to play games with Dumars.

Time after time he mismanaged the assets he had that could have made a difference. It is critical that the Nets have competence in signing free agents and drafting players. Those are two areas where Thorn has repeatedly failed miserably. All of his good work was in trades and the opportunity for trades that benefit the Nets is between now and the trade deadline. So great Rod can handle trading the current expiring contracts and then ride off into the sunset knowing he did something good at the end.

After the 2010 trade deadline, Rod's usefulness to this franchise is over.


100% correct.

Hmm, he got an all-star for a player who demanded a trade. Got a couple young pieces for 2 guys making over 15 million per year who look beyond lost this year, and hes the problem?


Labeling Devin Harris an All-Star is insane. The young guys aren't any good. I think their age is irrelevant.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:20 pm

Kid Chocolate wrote:Why should it matter what "fan bases" think?

These same "fan bases" also hype up their own players incessantly.


Yes, just like the hype over Vince and Devin. In Rod we Trust is just another example of misplaced blind homerism.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Kid Chocolate » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:24 pm

cpawfan wrote:Yes, just like the hype over Vince and Devin. In Rod we Trust is just another example of misplaced blind homerism.


So you brought up how Rod isn't respected by fan bases why?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby winitortank » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:02 pm

He got gift wrapped a motivated Jason Kidd. A man that played at such a high level that he made Scott look like an actual NBA coach instead the babbling fool he really is.

That year he won GM of the year. Scott was a motivator nothing more Eddie Jordan drew up the offense and then assistant L. Frank took over when Scott got the boot.

He had a chance to draft Danny Granger and didn't. He thought McInnis would help the Nets. He thought Magloire would help the Nets. He thought SAR was the missing piece to win the East with a severely unbalanced roster. He screwed up the Kittles TE by trying to play games with Dumars.

The owner didn't want to spend he did a good job considering his hands were tied.
The coach wanted SAR Thorn wanted Stromile Swift. He gave SAR a low offer believing his knees wouldn't hold up. He was right.

Time after time he mismanaged the assets he had that could have made a difference. It is critical that the Nets have competence in signing free agents and drafting players. Those are two areas where Thorn has repeatedly failed miserably. All of his good work was in trades and the opportunity for trades that benefit the Nets is between now and the trade deadline. So great Rod can handle trading the current expiring contracts and then ride off into the sunset knowing he did something good at the end.


This is true. I think he should stay as president they need a new GM willing to take chances the team has the money and draft picks to make a juggernaut.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Ast » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:06 pm

cpawfan wrote:He got gift wrapped a motivated Jason Kidd. A man that played at such a high level that he made Scott look like an actual NBA coach instead the babbling fool he really is.

You are down playing moves that demonstrate clearly that he doesn't have what it takes to build a winner unless he gets lucky. He had a chance to draft Danny Granger and didn't. He thought McInnis would help the Nets. He thought Magloire would help the Nets. He thought SAR was the missing piece to win the East with a severely unbalanced roster. He screwed up the Kittles TE by trying to play games with Dumars.

Time after time he mismanaged the assets he had that could have made a difference. It is critical that the Nets have competence in signing free agents and drafting players. Those are two areas where Thorn has repeatedly failed miserably. All of his good work was in trades and the opportunity for trades that benefit the Nets is between now and the trade deadline. So great Rod can handle trading the current expiring contracts and then ride off into the sunset knowing he did something good at the end.

After the 2010 trade deadline, Rod's usefulness to this franchise is over.
What I don't agree with is your belief that he severely mismanaged the assets of franchise. Let's take a quick look at your examples:
1) He didnt draft Danny Granger - neither did the other 15 teams with him. Late lottery / mid first round picks are a product of luck more than GM's skill. Can you name one franchise that consistently got good players in that position?
Also, wasn't Stefanski in charge of draft picks?
2) McInnis had an excellent season before that with the Cavs, and didn't cause too much trouble. He was getting a veteran coming off a great season - isn't that what we needed? Who was a better option?
4) Magloire got a 1 year, 4m deal. It's not exactly a franchise killer, and for a player who was a double-double All-star a couple of years before it was a risk I can live with. Again - are you saying there was someone much better available for the MLE?
5) SAR - we'll never know, will we? SAR's knee problems started 2 years later, I'd gladly absorb a 5m/yr dead contract for last 2 years (even though we could probably get an injury exception) if it got us a title. Shareef would have addressed quite a few issues we had - us being a bad half court and rebounding team.
6) Can you explain on the Kittles trade? He moved a player whose career ended for 8m TE - which I always thought was a great deal. No?

What are the assets that Rod mismanaged? He's a GM of a small market team who only had MLE and virtually no talent to trade with. You can blame him for overpaying Vince - that's about it. When he gave RJ the contract, he was an up and coming future all-star who showed continuous improvement and played great D. Who knew he'd start working on his 3s and forget what defense and rebounding are?
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Eddymac » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:13 pm

cpawfan wrote:
No he didn't. He did a good job blowing up the team and got lucky that Dumars took Darko.

No one that drafts Skita over Amare did a good job rebuilding


But on that same night he got Nene who is still on the team and is a key contributer, he traded a washed McDyess to the Knicks for Marcus Camby who was a big part of that team for a few years, so he may have passed on Amare which other teams did as well, but that cant be held against him.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Netted » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:20 pm

Ast wrote:6) Can you explain on the Kittles trade? He moved a player whose career ended for 8m TE - which I always thought was a great deal. No?

I know this one. He used it to claim Elden Campbell off waivers from the Pistons. The Pistons thought he would clear and they could re-sign him. Then Thorn tried to use him to convince Dumars to trade him Milicic.

Pretty sure that's what it was, but it is a little fuzzy now. I remember he definitely used it on Campbell.

Someone correct the details if I'm wrong.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:36 pm

winitortank wrote:Thorn wanted Stromile Swift.


How is this a defense of Thorn? You just put another huge nail in his coffin with that.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:43 pm

Kid Chocolate wrote:So you brought up how Rod isn't respected by fan bases why?


Would you be happy if it was announced Kevin McHale was going to the next GM of the Nets? Very few fans of other teams would be happy to hear that their team would be hiring Rod Thorn.

Other front office execs may say nice things about Thorn, but then NBA coaches say nice things about Scott.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby Joey FistPump » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:05 pm

Unless you can prepare me a list of 5 potential replacements I don't want to here any more complaints about Rod Thorn. He may not be the best, but he certainly isn't the worst...and the facts remain that his hands have been bound since the day Bruce Ratner became owner.

Ratner may even be a worse owner than Donald Sterling...that's saying something.

Regardless I trust Mikhail Prokhorov to turn this franchise around...he is the kind of guy who takes pride in winning and won't tolerate losing. I'm looking forward to this change.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:28 pm

Ast wrote:What I don't agree with is your belief that he severely mismanaged the assets of franchise. Let's take a quick look at your examples:


1) He didnt draft Danny Granger - neither did the other 15 teams with him. Late lottery / mid first round picks are a product of luck more than GM's skill. Can you name one franchise that consistently got good players in that position? Look at the level of incompetence of the GM's that passed over him after the top 4 picks. Portland's old GM passed on Deron and CP3 to trade down. Raptors (Babcock) need I say more? Zeke, the Bobcats hoping for UNC fans to fill the arena, the Clippers, Kevin McHale. Seriously, that was a horrible group of GM's

Also, wasn't Stefanski in charge of draft picks? - The buck has to stop somewhere

2) McInnis had an excellent season before that with the Cavs, and didn't cause too much trouble. He was getting a veteran coming off a great season - isn't that what we needed? Who was a better option? As some astute person pointed out over and over that summer, McInnis created a lot of trouble late in the season and had completely pissed off LeBron. He was horrible in Portland and was selfish in Cleveland. He was not at all what the Nets needed.


3) Magloire got a 1 year, 4m deal. It's not exactly a franchise killer, and for a player who was a double-double All-star a couple of years before it was a risk I can live with. Again - are you saying there was someone much better available for the MLE? He was putrid in Portland. He was DOA in New Jersey. A D league scrub could have contributed more than Magloire and that was obvious before the season started. The MLE could have been used on a shooter.


4) SAR - we'll never know, will we? SAR's knee problems started 2 years later, I'd gladly absorb a 5m/yr dead contract for last 2 years (even though we could probably get an injury exception) if it got us a title. Shareef would have addressed quite a few issues we had - us being a bad half court and rebounding team. This has nothing to do with his knees. It was very clear from his play that season in Sacramento that he wasn't a difference maker. Heck, he was super motivated to prove the Nets were fools for passing on him and he still played like a below average PF for the Kings. Smart people knew in advance that SAR wasn't the missing the piece.

5) Can you explain on the Kittles trade? He moved a player whose career ended for 8m TE - which I always thought was a great deal. No? Netted covered it.

What are the assets that Rod mismanaged? He's a GM of a small market team who only had MLE and virtually no talent to trade with. You can blame him for overpaying Vince - that's about it. When he gave RJ the contract, he was an up and coming future all-star who showed continuous improvement and played great D. Who knew he'd start working on his 3s and forget what defense and rebounding are?


He failed to trade Vince when his value was at the peak.

He thought he could build a championship team around 3 perimeter players that didn't fit together and he never addressed the weaknesses in the roster.

He mismanaged Krstic coming back to the NBA.

He had Diop when he was considered a commodity.

He failed to leave roster spots open to allow for maneuverability

Other teams found useful players in the D League or signed undrafted free agents that panned out. For a team on a budget, those are two huge failings. The players Rod took a chance on all sucked. That isn't luck.
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Re: Without a new Front Office, the Nets will continue to suck

Postby cpawfan » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:39 pm

Joey FistPump wrote:Unless you can prepare me a list of 5 potential replacements I don't want to here any more complaints about Rod Thorn.


Gosh the Thunder (nee Sonics) had such a difficult time finding a quality GM to turn their franchise around. Were do you think that Kevin Pritchard learned his craft? It wasn't in Portland. Daryl Morey was in charge of operations for the Celtics before going to the Rockets.

Naming 5 candidates is easy and I have done it before. There are hundreds of people that would love to have this job. The key is finding the next Presti/Pritchard/Morey instead of the next Kiki. Thorn clearly isn't capable of this as he hired Stefanski and Kiki.

Analogy time
Are you going to keep dating the girl that makes your life miserable 5 days out of the week just because you don't have someone else lined up?
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